As the gay rights debate spreads across America, has the climate of the NFL become more conducive to acceptance?
albersdg: Once again "the media" just does not get it with this "dialogue."
!!! NEWS FLASH !!! !!! NEWS FLASH !!!
There are already homosexual athlet...
pcca: kthhken Author Profile Page :
really, sticking your penis in another man's mouth or butt is normal. Seems to go against conventional biolo...
delOH: I am begging ya guys, next question. Would it help if I said please? ...
Make a Comment | All Comments (44)
June 17, 2009 7:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
If there are guys in the NFL willing to accept a basket case like Chad Johnson, T.O. or any of the other 100's of head cases, I am sure they can handle it if their OLB likes other guys. In 99% of the jobs in the world we are able to handle it, I am sure the NFL can too.
June 17, 2009 10:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
A man is still a man even if he is gay, so if a palyer is gay doesnt mean he wont make plays and do his job.
June 17, 2009 11:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Why would any NFL team care what their player's sexual preferences are? Some people prefer Blondes, some prefer thicker women, and some may prefer other guys.
What's the deal, you don't see NFL players having "relations" in the locker room with females and I think that you won't see any "relations" happening with men their either.....
June 17, 2009 11:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
A player is a player. He can still do a good job for the team and the community. I would hope the teams' fans could simply focus on the things they like and leave alone what they don't.
June 17, 2009 12:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Does this mean everyone watching football will have to be openly gay too?! -- Signed: Hoplessly Confused
June 17, 2009 12:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Incredibly unimportant and completely worthless topic of discussion.
Football is football is football. Who cares how or whom any of these guys f***s!
STAY AWAY FROM MY SPORT.
June 17, 2009 12:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The problem is a regressive but pervasive opinion among NFL players and staff regarding what it means to be "male" or a "man." Until these folks adopt a more enlightened view of gender roles, nothing will change.
But who are we kidding?
We are talking about (mostly) dumb jocks here.
June 17, 2009 12:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I'm sure that among all the active players in the NFL some have habits and traits that are not approved by all. Look at the Vick, Lewis, etc... cases! But then again these guys play for pay. Nuff said!
June 17, 2009 12:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
What do you mean by "openly Gay"? How many straight men crouch behind another man and stick their hands between his legs? And how many straight men pat each other on the butt when they pass each other? And some of those pileups are really unnecessary to the game. Once the ball carrier is down is it really necessary to jump on the pile of men and rub against them? The "notion" that they are straight is a delusion.
June 17, 2009 12:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The problem that most men have with openly gay men is mostly based on portrayals in the media where gay men are "sissies". This fear of being thought of as a "sissy" is entrenched in boys as soon as they start playing any type of sports. Listen to the negative taunts of fag or gay in the youth of today. If there were more "regular guy" gays shown in the media there might be a shift in ideas. Straight men, in general, tend to be homophobic and have a higher opinion of themselves as being attractive to gay males. The stereotypes can only be broken if people stop seeing being gay as bad. These lessons must begin in the home and then continued in school, media and everyday life.
June 17, 2009 1:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This is a ridiculous discussion. We have at least one openly gay senator.
June 17, 2009 1:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Who is our openly Gay senator? I know of none.
June 17, 2009 1:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Repressed homosexual attraction would go a long ways in explaining the obsession Americans have with these ridiculus sports .
June 17, 2009 1:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Depending on his position, an openly gay player could be targeted by homophobic players who don't want to be "outplayed" by a gay. Of course, normal folks know there's no shame in that. A homophobe thinks just the opposite. So an openly gay player may pay for the stuid fears of others on the field.
June 17, 2009 2:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Oh and if players can accept Tim Hasselback on their team, despite being married to the devil, they should accept a gay person.
June 17, 2009 2:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Football is already the gayest sport imaginable, next to figure skating. Why not make it official?
June 17, 2009 2:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
PATPXS wrote:If there were more "regular guy" gays shown in the media there might be a shift in ideas.
Being an openly gay "regular guy" I get the backlash as well. Mechanically inclined, love football and am pretty good at what I do. Once I had a co-worker find out and then threaten me, I told him let's go outside, it's his reputation when he loses. Personally I feel it's all about boundaries and trust, If I know you're straight I would never overstep a boundary out of respect for you as a person. Unfortunately this is not all ways the case and can create animosity for both sides of the ball (pun intended). But in this day and age it really shouldn't matter, it should be nothing more than about a player's prformance on the field.
June 17, 2009 2:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I hope some day homophobia can be cured. Until then, the law should ensure that all Americans enjoy the same rights.
As for football, any "locker room" arguments are rendered moot by history. We had the same bs discussion back when they wanted to bar women reporters from locker rooms. Remember, they were all just clamoring to get in there so that they could ogle the sweaty, stinking bodies of post-game jocks? Well, football and other pro sports seems to have weathered that apocolyptic change just fine. I think it took two weeks.
Grow up little boys. If you're secure about your sexuality then the sexuality of anyone around you shouldn't pose a problem. If you're not secure about who you are, then YOU have a problem and need to get help. Not your fellow Americans who are simply trying to live their lives, just like you are.
June 17, 2009 2:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Just as long as he is not the one hiking the ball to the quarterback...
June 17, 2009 3:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Sure football is a game, but the players in the NFL are paid professionals and this is no longer a game, it is a job.
In the work world nobody is paying you to like or be friends with your co-workers. You are being paid to get a job done and to work with your co-workers when needed to get the job done.
Gay and straight people must keep their sexual lusts under control when at work. The football field, basketball court, baseball diamond, or ice rink is no different from the office or battle field.
Kenneth Hutcherson asks rhetocially: "Has a homosexual ever had to use a different bathroom?" Well, this is exactly what Mr. Hutcherson would require! If we are so concerned about sexual attraction disrupting an organization, then perhaps we should have all worklaces separated by gender and orientation. Oh, we expect people to rise about their base instincts at work? Well, why not on a football team, as well?
June 17, 2009 3:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Where's the "REPORT OFFENSIVE COMMENTS" link for Hutcherson's article?
Usually the wapo has better journalistic standards than this.
June 17, 2009 3:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Can we hear opinions from a non-ideological football player (or former player)? Not a gay former player or a conservative pastor former player. What about a regular old guy who isn't gay and doesn't care if someone else is gay talking about the real issue with having an openly gay member on the team? Is thre really an issue? If there is, I can't see what is would be. Especially because they are already there! And yet somehow the closeted gay players have been able to control themselves in those ever-present communal shower situations anti-gay proponents seem to bring up.
June 17, 2009 3:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
What is the right in question? All males and females have the right to own property, vote, worship, go to restaurants of their choice, sit on any bus seat they wish, tell me what right is it that is in question?
It is not a right they seek, but state sanction of deviant behavior, and the teaching of that behavior as "normal" and the criminalization of people who disagree.
That is not what the civil rights movement was about.
There are males out there that want the state to say, it is "normal" for males to perform sodomy, and for women who cannot procreate with each other, that it is as normal and acceptable as any other behavior.
Well society has the right and obligation to say NO! There is a special significance to the procreative love between two people to bringing forth life.
Two same persons cannot by definition form a marriage because there is no complimentarity. The best they can do is form a merger. Which then implies only a legalistic understanding of the union.
If the U.S. did not have over 1,100 laws that relate to persons in the married state, we would not be discussing. The fact is that people that are only concerned about themselves, and trying to take advantage of laws that were not designed for them is driving this issue.
Not one homosexual has proclaimed how the merger of two people of the same sex in marriage advantages society.
Instead, we get look at me I choose to be gay and I want to perform deviant homosexual acts, and all of society must accept it.
Thanks to the 30 states that have said no, there is still hope.
June 17, 2009 3:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"I hope some day homophobia can be cured"... really, sticking your penis in another man's mouth or butt is normal. Seems to go against conventional biology.
June 17, 2009 3:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Wow, an openly gay NFL player. That would be almost as big news as a winning NFL team in Detroit.
June 17, 2009 4:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Gays engage in immoral conduct which defies cultural norms. What renders them different from others is that their conduct. It also undermines the fraternal bonds common in football teams.
In the end, such a player would have to have seperate bathroom, shower, etc.
Players would target him on the field, and he would recieve less support precisely because he prefers to make his sexual conduct his identifying public persona, not to mention that this conduct is immoral and reprehensible.
June 17, 2009 4:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Remember Jerry Smith with the Skins...started out as a tight end and finished up as a wide receiver...
June 17, 2009 4:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"There is a special significance to the procreative love between two people to bringing forth life."
"Instead, we get look at me I choose to be gay and I want to perform deviant homosexual acts, and all of society must accept it."
The first statement is offensive and a slap in the face to all straight couples who marry and cannot bear children for whatever reason.
The second statement shows an ignorance that causes a lot of the problems. Gay people do not "choose" to be gay. No one would choose to by subjected to hate and ridicule by ignorant people just because of their sexual preference, which was determined before they were born.
June 17, 2009 6:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"The first statement is offensive and a slap in the face to all straight couples who marry and cannot bear children for whatever reason."
In no way is it. For the vast majority they have no idea at the time of marriage that they cannot procreate. But it is in their heart to be open to the procreative process and having children using the beautiful gifts given to man and woman of sexual love.
"The second statement shows an ignorance that causes a lot of the problems. Gay people do not "choose" to be gay. No one would choose to by subjected to hate and ridicule by ignorant people just because of their sexual preference, which was determined before they were born."
As of today there is no evidence in the scientific journals (say that equivalent to the acceptance of global warming) that there is a gene that would cause a male, with male reproductive organs to want to try to procreate (nice way of saying sodomy) with a another male (ditto for female). And since we have mapped the entire human genome, one can rationally deduce that we would have found such a gene by now if it indeed did exist. But at least as of now there isn't that conclusion.
Most of the arguments are about choice, similar to the debates about choice of killing babies in the womb. I should have the choice to do what I want and no one should tell me different and if they do they should be taught they are wrong and if they persist then they should be criminalized. This is the trajectory in Canada, England, and now here. I reject these notions as antithetical to the founders understanding of the underpinnings of our common moral heritage that is the basis for the consitution. Read George Washington's farewell address for his warning on this subject.
June 17, 2009 6:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
As I recall, that book was written 30 years ago.
Ho-Hum, I wish the WAPO would find a new cause
June 17, 2009 7:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Given the rather primitive nature of this particular sport as well as its fan base I'd be very worried for the safety of an openly gay player. They'd have to be pretty good just to avoid the homophobes on the teams as well as in the stands. Its not like the military in that there is discipline in the armed forces whereas in sports the more obnoxious the behavior the louder the fans cheer.
June 17, 2009 8:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Doesn't TO count? He does have a pretty wide 'stance'
June 17, 2009 8:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Hey, every NFL team should be required to have at least one homosexual and also to pay for health benefits for his partner. There should be a requirement that at least one team have a homosexual coach and that at least 1/10th of the cheerleaders be gay and dress in drag. At least 1 out of every 10 videos on the big screen should have a homosexual theme. At least once a season the traditional prayer at the middle of the field after the game should be replaced with a mini gay pride parade.
June 17, 2009 8:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Does this mean they will be identified by a rainbow on their helmet? I agree, next question.
Gay propaganda wants the culture to believe its innate and immutable. But CHOICE in action is the human condition. Anecdotal testimonies about its innateness isnt any more right than the anecdotal testimonies of scientologists to the truth of that belief.
Thus, as sexual behavior, its within the realm of human standards to judge the actions of gays. Gay sexual conduct is against God's moral instructions for mankind, which is for sex to be between a man and woman in marriage only.
What place does sex have on a football field?
What place does the private sexual practices of players have on the football field? It doesnt. The gay movement wants to push the envelope constantly, creating wedge issues which they think will serve them.
June 18, 2009 2:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
"Having a gay player is like having a woman in the shower or locker. You won't be able to keep your mind off it."
Huh? What's this "it" our panelist thinks is so distracting about another guy, who'll be minding his own business? A gay man isn't a woman - he's a man. Besides, in the western world, adults of both genders and all sexual preferences work together. What's so precious about professional football?
June 18, 2009 4:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
if this gay player is sacked all the time...
like if he had a bullseye on his back...
can he cry foul and file a complaint...
especially if he gets hurt...
nobody needs to know who is doing who...
leave your sex at home, this is football...
June 18, 2009 7:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Once again "the media" just does not get it with this "dialogue."
!!! NEWS FLASH !!! !!! NEWS FLASH !!!
There are already homosexual athletes playing at all levels --- Pop Warner, grade school, middle school, high school, college, semi-pro, and pro.
They have been playing in sports for decades, may be even since the very first game was played. The question is moot!
The real question is:
Are we able to accept people for who they are?
Are we willing to acknowledge his / her God-given talents, accept his / her gifts, and recognize his / her accomplishments?
I played football in high school and one vote shy of being elected defensive team captain.
I don't know if any of my teammates knew if I was gay, but they did know one thing for certain.
If they needed someone to make a tackle and stop the opposing offense, they looked to me. And I tried to perform to the best of my ability and to meet their expectations.
Additionally, we all spent countless hours practicing, riding to and from games on the school bus, playing in weather fair and foul, environments friendly and hostile, and experiencing competitions exhilarating and numbing.
This is where the enduring bonds of camaraderie are forged. Anyone who has played a team sport, knows what I am talking about. It has been 34 years since I last played, but the boys, now men and fathers, and some even grandfathers, greet me with affection and respect (they now know I am gay).
This entire "dialogue" really hinges on what is "politically correct."
Will owners sign a gay player?
Will players accept and play with a gay player?
Will fans tolerate a gay player?
Well, they already do, they just don't know or refuse to acknowledge that they do.
I guess since the first integrated baseball, football, basketball, hockey game, Americans have learned absolutely nothing. What a great country!
With such a response by my country's bigots, I have no idea why any gay person would ever WANT to defend this country by serving in the military or glorify the country by playing in the Olympics or any other "national identity" sport.
But I know gay people play sports for the love of the game and people they play alongside and the people they compete against.
June 18, 2009 9:32 AM | Report Offensive Comments
so wait, and the NFL isn't divided (or doesn't have their "unity" injured) by players who are murderers, rapists, dog-killers, drunk-drivers, and drug users. but the idea of an openly gay player could make them all lose sight of the goal of playing well (and risking losing a shit ton of money)?
I think you all are forgetting how money-hungry NFL players are. They may not like having a gay kid on their team. but if he's their best bet for winning (and earning more money) they will play with him. He may not be their best friend. They may not invite him out to the clubs (that they shoot up). but they would play with him.
I think the question here is really, would the fans be ok with it? would a team lose fans by having a gay player? you know, with crazy asshole people like hutchinson around, yes they probably would. but for every hutchinson they lost, they would gain a couple of more fans who are in favor of having a more openly diverse game. (and like it or lump it, the new fans, being liberal and all, would probably have more money to spend on seats or jerseys or whatever helps out a franchise)
so, in summary, Hutchinson is a bigot and he will share his level of hell with other bigots who will hate him as much as he hates gays. The NFL can handle an openly gay player, assuming that player is very good. and his NFL teammates will handle it because they like their paychecks.
June 18, 2009 10:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
June 18, 2009 10:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
kthhken Author Profile Page :
really, sticking your penis in another man's mouth or butt is normal. Seems to go against conventional biology.
By that statement I just realized that ALL MEN are homosexual since they all want to stick their penises in mouths and butts, so what do we call women who also enjoy oral and anal sex?. Well that is it then, problem solved WE ARE ALL GAY.
June 18, 2009 5:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I am begging ya guys, next question. Would it help if I said please?
June 18, 2009 5:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments