The League

THE QUESTION

Do Juicers Belong in Canton?

Should the NFL ban players who have tested positive for PEDs from Hall of Fame induction?

Posted by Emil Steiner on July 31, 2009 8:00 AM
FEATURED COMMENTS

BobEHirst: Put them down cellar or in the side anteroom with a big fat asterisk and the appropriate footnote commentary.....

state82: Well, just as long as that s.o.b. Bonds doesn't get in. Something maybe then could be worked out for the rest of the cheaters....

sailmaker1943: NO! Nonononono! I'd like to know that a home run ball, e.g., is the result of superior batting technique, superb training, and perhaps a lit...

Make a Comment  |  All Comments (47)

ALL COMMENTS (47)
alysheba_3 Author Profile Page :

Nope. The Hall of Fame is for those people who have used hard work and natural ability to achieve their greatness, not for those who had the money to buy the drugs needed.

dkp01 Author Profile Page :

Nope. There's nothing HOF-worthy in cheating.

katfish Author Profile Page :

Face the facts people: THERE IS NOTHING SAFE ABOUT FOOTBALL! why do you think players die when they're 40? Most are roided up anyway, and I say God bless. They're gladiators, don't try to deny them their calling. They sacrifice their bodies for our entertainment and you want to question the manner in which they do it? Whatev

Wallpass Author Profile Page :

Simply, NO. For obvious reasons. Cheaters should not be rewarded for 'enhanced' accomplishments. Not fair to those who chose or choose not to take PEDs.

FredEvil Author Profile Page :

As far as I'm concerned, why not? With all of the 'dietary supplements' available today, what's the difference? If someone's drinking coffee, they ARE USING A STIMULANT!

As far as I'm concerned, let them start juicing up like crazy, and replace limbs with bio-artificial enhancements (think cyborgs!). It just might make the game interesting again!

alysheba_3 Author Profile Page :

Katfish,

So are you stating that your son can start using steroids at 15 to make his high school team? After all you can't make the College team without being scouted in high school (or at least 99% of the time)? Then in College or University continuing the use to sign a multi-million dollar contract?

Fredevil,

There is a difference between a dietary supplement, which is legal and/or regulated to help prevent harmful side effects, and a substance that is illegal and/or controlled due to the side effects which can be harmful if taken too often.

I, personally, would rather my child learn that hard work will get you what you want, rather than learning that cheating is the way to win in life.

angelofil Author Profile Page :

Absolutely NOT! They didn't get where they are by talent and ability alone. They use steroids to help them along the way and they should not by rewarded for it.

katfish Author Profile Page :

Dietary supplements regulated to prevent harmful side effects? Give me a break? You need to wake up and smell what you're shoveling ALYSHEBA_3. Read the label. The FDA has no control over supplements. Ephedra was legal until it killed some people as did herbal xtacy. Andro which is basically a steroid is still available in most GNCs. You can't stop players from taking these so why draw arbitrary lines?

alysheba_3 Author Profile Page :

Katfish,

You forgot to answer the question. So, it's OK for your teenager to take these to give someone else something "entertaining" to watch?

charlesbakerharris Author Profile Page :

If the baseball writers are still the ones voting for the HoF, it's going to continue to be a joke regardless of the steroid issue.

dgblues Author Profile Page :

Not only should they not be in the Hall of Fame, they shouldn't be in the record books.

No asterisk.

No nothin'.

Zip.

Of course, baseball has long gone to hell in a hand basket, so who cares?

Robe2 Author Profile Page :

Why shouldn't juciers be allowed in the Hall of Fame. Especially in the kitchen.

How else are they going to make oj for all the old geezers on Hall of Fame Saturday breakfast?

You cann't squeeze that many oranges by hand!

aglockne Author Profile Page :

Cheaters don't belong in the HOF? Tell that to all the amphetamine users back when (and whatever you do, don't read Henry Aaron's autobiography).
Cheaters don't belong in the HOF? Tell that to Gaylord (Mr. Vaseline) Perry or Don (the Scuffer) Sutton.
All you hypocrites *love* your cheaters in the HOF, and there's no reason to keep the current batch of "cheaters" out if you're going to let the existing ones stay in.

aglockne Author Profile Page :

And perhaps I should have my medication checked for confusing Canton with Cooperstown.
But I'll make the same point - how many players were on uppers in the 60's and 70's? How many linemen in the 70's and 80's and 90's were on the juice? And how many players are using HGH now?
If some say that baseball is more tainted than football by PED use, it's only because the fans have tolerated it in football. Notice the loud protests and TV ratings drop after Merriman went to the Pro Bowl the season of his suspension? Naaaaaah.

david-mckenzie Author Profile Page :

The fact that the question is asked proves what a shame, what a disgrace and what a joke professional sports have become. The only enhancers Sammy Baugh, Stan Musial and Bob Gibson had was talent.

david-mckenzie Author Profile Page :

The fact that the question is asked proves what a shame, what a disgrace and what a joke professional sports have become. The only enhancers Sammy Baugh, Stan Musial and Bob Gibson had was talent.

david-mckenzie Author Profile Page :

The fact that the question is asked proves what a shame, what a disgrace and what a joke professional sports have become. The only enhancers Sammy Baugh, Stan Musial and Bob Gibson had was talent.

rlmayville Author Profile Page :

No

mimo1 Author Profile Page :

I love football, and I love baseball. I wish there was no Hall of Fame. No. cheaters do not belong in the Hall of Fame. I personally couldn't care less about the Hall of Fame. What I do care about is the message it sends to our youth... "do whatever it takes." It's absolutely not right.

delOH Author Profile Page :

NO! Mr. Carpenter's take on this is the best. The NFL did a better job on this topic than MLB, though, because of one man, Don Fehr. Baseball(owners)let the inmates run the asylum for decades. They all did 'roids. How about that Gagne kid from LA? Is he even still in baseball? Take a look at the size of the melon sitting on beloved Cal Ripkin Jr.'s shoulders, think he's on "The Secret List"? I'd bet the mortgage. Time to let this go, it just doesn't matter. Like balls juiced by Bud Selig and maple bats, PEDs are part of the game. The media need to let this go.

cohenra Author Profile Page :

This might be sacrillage, but I don't get the Hall of Fame, and ever since I visited Cooperstown when I was a kid, I never did.

Games are to be played. When they are over, they are over. They are the past. Talking about past games is fun. Revering past games and players, well, I don't get it.

So, should steroids keep players out of the Hall, if a tree falls in the forest . . . is the answer if you ask me.

Oh, the speeches sometimes are great theater.

mbudnick1 Author Profile Page :

How allowed this situation to develop? The owners and sponser who would profit by the excitement. The players by higher pay. Only the public would be harmed by higher ticket prices and tarnished heroes. It seems that this the american way.
Let them have the honor with an asterisk showing their defalcations drugs, gambling, sex etc. At least we can acknowledge the good and the bad.

terry14 Author Profile Page :

I have to laugh. Why all the hand wringing? Let 'em *all* have steroids. After all, "No one remembers #2" and "Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing." We can watch two men crawl into a cage and go at it no-holds barred, so obviously, the pious concern for the athletes' well being is just rhetoric.

tazdelaney Author Profile Page :

'performance-enhancing drugs'... does that include coffee? a wall street journal article of 2003 said that "if the flow of cocaine to wall street was stopped, it would cause a recession (and more than a few depressions.)" remember that nigerian who ran the fastest mile ever a few years ago and then tested positive, had the trophy taken away... well, prohibitionists aside, he was still the fastest.

randers001104 Author Profile Page :

Do players belong in the hall of fame that have broken the rules? No. If they do then why have rules at all? Why have referees? That said, let's not get too dramatic and compare steroids and cocaine to coffee. Let's not compare the NFL to ultimate fighter championships. It's the NFL with a need to draw a line where performance enhancing drugs are concerned just like baseball and cycling. The drugs like marijuana and prescription drugs like Xanax which definitely are not going to enhance performance ought to have a different ruling.

krankyman Author Profile Page :

The simple truth about PED's is they destroy the person and they destroy the sport.

PEDs make a good player great and add years to a players career.

Most of professional sports are popular because of the emotional attachments created throughout the fan's life. They grow up playing the sport and idolizing the sport's heroes.

Anytime a player uses a chemical enhancer they cheat the fan and they cheat the sport.

Baseball is perhaps the most egregious example because of the many individual milestones in the sport.

Would Maris' record be broken without PEDs? No. Would Bonds be the home run king without dope? No.

It affects other sports as well.

Would the East German Swim teams have dominated the Olympics without dope? No.

One of the greatest competitions, the Tour de France was almost destroyed by the cheating dopers.

Every game or sport is a competition between individuals bounded by a set of rules that apply to all.

When people like Bonds, Sosa, Clemens use dope they cheat all the other players in the league as well as all the other players in history. And in the end everyone knows they are just cheaters who were willing to sell their integrity and the game for a plaque on a wall and a few bucks in the bank.

Consider Clemens. For years he built his reputation on "respect" for the game and he claimed he owed his high level of play and long years in the league to devotion to intense off season workouts.

Now we know most of Roger's success came from a substance oozing out of the end of a needle that was stuck in his butt in some dingy corner of a clubhouse.

These cheaters deserve nothing but contempt and dishonor.

Oh and MLB? This is why I no longer watch your sport. And I certainly won't go to Cooperstown to view all the cheaters you have and will enshrine there.

MycroftH Author Profile Page :

This isn't a baseball problem. Its a societal one. We live in a country in which somewhere between 75 and 95 percent of the population have cheated on school examinations, and in which 70 percent of college students agree that they would lie to get a job. We instill the value of winning above all else in our children at a grade school level. I have seen parents at baseball games scream at their kids for failing to take unfair advantage. I have watched youth soccer coaches cheat in the purportedly random selection of 1st grade soccer teams so that the teams they coach can always win.

We should put the steroid users in the Hall of Fame. In fact we should honor them for cheating better than their peers. Anything less would less than honest about who we are.

chjoer Author Profile Page :

If you can be suspended or expelled from the league for using substances which are banned, the stats that propelled you into the 'record' books shouldn't be held for posterity's sake either.

hill_marty Author Profile Page :

This is a big don't care for me. The days of baseball players (or any other sports figure) being heroes to young people are long gone. Pro sports is just a business now, as evidenced by the NFL's decision to allow a blood sport animal killer back into the league. Let them dope themselves with steroids and other performance enhancing drugs to the moon. The Hall of Fame has no more meaning than the Hall of Business Executives Who Made A Lot Of Money.

Lucastoli Author Profile Page :

Absolutely not. And both the NFL and MLB should have frequent unannounced testing of everyone with "one strike and you're out for life". Clean 'em up.

Lucastoli Author Profile Page :

Absolutely. And both the NFL and MLB should have frequent unannounced testing of everyone with "one strike and you're out for life". Clean 'em up.

gsigas Author Profile Page :

I agree with Hill_Marty and Fredevil. Professional sports is entertainment and the players should be allowed to enhance themselves in whichever way they wish. I would say the only limitation would be the long-term health of the players. I really don't see the difference between taking a performance drug and being genetically gifted with higher natural hormone levels, longer limbs or greater muscle mass. Those genetic gifts had nothing to do with hard work, perseverence or training either (they were an accident of birth). How about people that make use of biomechanics and special training are they cheating because someone smarter than them is telling them exactly what to eat, when to rest and the exact excercises to do based on medical tests, statistics and biophysical measurements?

hariseldon Author Profile Page :

No. The players of the Golden and Silver Ages of baseball consumed amphetamines like Kool-Aid. If we wanted a 'clean' Hall of Fame, we'd have to kick out most of the players currently in it.

Due to the competitive pressures of high-level athletics, we should only hold competitors (in any and all sports) accountable for what we are willing and able to test for during the years in which they are competing.

Anyone who says differently is denying reality, and worse, penalizing the honorable few who would sacrifice their performances for an unenforced standard.

ervinst Author Profile Page :

Why would allowing the use of any drugs be allowed in any sports when it is not allowed in the general public...would not this be a double standard ? If these players are not good enough on their own then why are they playing ? If they are not playing for the love of the sport then what are they doing ? Other than the tons of money they get paid for playing a game...which in life most of them are not worth .

nobodycares Author Profile Page :

Why in the world is this a question? Why would any sport want, then allow, people who have cheated and made a complete mockery of that sport - just so they could MAKE MONEY - into their Hall of Fame? Oh yeah, they're famous: for being the lowest forms of life. What's the difference between them and a Madoff? They have CHEATED people out of their money.

Not only should they be banned from the Hall (any Hall - whichever sport), they should be banned from playing, banned from any activity in that sport and prosecuted, if possible. Period.

Why in the world do commissioners coddle to these parasites? Because they are just as guilty - they are in it for the MONEY too. The integrity of major league sports is gone. Period. (Whoa! two periods)

cattheanimal Author Profile Page :

what a hof without bonds, mac, rose, shoeless joe jackson, clemens, manny, sosa, and a-rod? just asterisk an entire wing of the hall and put them on display.

doctorhock Author Profile Page :

Why is there a picture of a baseball player accompanying the homepage blurb on this discussion?

blund Author Profile Page :

Not a chance. Juice up and you stay out of the HOF. We're not talking about greasing up a baseball or corking a bat. We're talking about PED's that alter the body's chemistry that shattered one baseball record after another. The Bonds, Palmeros, Sosas, ARods, etc. all got their 15 minutes of fame and contracts that made them rich beyond belief by showing all of us they had no respect for the game. Why should we then give them any respect for what they did? For a Bonds to go into the HOF he needs to stand in line behind Pete Rose who is more deserving then juice boy is.

bentz71 Author Profile Page :

Any athlete using PEDs should only be displayed on bathroom walls.

jameschirico Author Profile Page :

It is all relative. The NFL regardless of what is posted here would close testing for steroids. Baseball on the other hand sees the difference in non-juiced players. Bonds head grew a size after he was 30 when men stop growing at 21. I think what ever is natural in nature can be used to enhance performance but manufactured growth through steroids or hormones should be illegal. Football too should clean up it's act, not so much to protect the players, but for our youth that will mimick their bad choices.

Patriot3 Author Profile Page :

Juicers don't belong in Canton or Cooperstown. They cheated.

maxtel1910 Author Profile Page :

They do not belong in the traditional HOFs, but perhaps we need a PED HOF to dishonor all those athletes who resorted to extra-natural means to achieve unnatural results. We could have induction ceremonies, bronze busts, tours, annual games, etc. Sports like cycling should only have a PED HOF since it's so chemically enhanced. The Tour de Farce gets its own wing. This might serve as a cautionary exercise to deter today's athletes from cheating.

jamesisrael77 Author Profile Page :

The problem with rejecting the steroid ballplayers publicly 'caught' using performance-enhancers from the Hall of Fame is that there're many, many more [i.e., Ivan Rodriguez, Brady Anderson, Mike Piazza, etc.] players who managed to avoid getting caught even though it's obvious now they were taking steroids of some kind. So, you'll have ballplayers getting in part because they were fortunate enough to evade the public ignominy of being 'outed'.

Ergo, I say let everyone, steroids or not, be judged strictly on their career achievements, not whether they would caught or not, and ignore the issue of steroid use. It's simply unfair otherwise.

Jimbo1

pdeblin Author Profile Page :

There are 1 billion starving people in the world. Who really cares whether cheaters go anywhere. Let them or don't let them. Sports biz suckers us out of our money...more and more every year to support greedy owners and players. Let them play their games and go into their Halls of Fame. In the end, who cares?

BobEHirst Author Profile Page :

Put them down cellar or in the side anteroom with a big fat asterisk and the appropriate footnote commentary..

state82 Author Profile Page :

Well, just as long as that s.o.b. Bonds doesn't get in. Something maybe then could be worked out for the rest of the cheaters.

sailmaker1943 Author Profile Page :

NO! Nonononono! I'd like to know that a home run ball, e.g., is the result of superior batting technique, superb training, and perhaps a little luck, and not the result of some chemist doping the player or some surgeon artificially enhancing muscles and tendons. Otherwise, the team/player with the most money and a willingness to cheat will win out every time over natural athletic ability. Cheats are cheats, and should be denied any entry in anybody's record book other than a big fat red asterisk proclaiming, "S/He cheated."

 
 
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