Can adulterers be role models or does infidelity preclude athletes from being admired?
ravitchn: Earl Butz, sec. of agriculture under Nixon, said it a long time ago: what blacks want is loose shoes, tight p.....y, and a warm place to p....
carolineC1: I am having a hard time deciding what is more admirable: a person who "sticks it out" under a false sense of duty, never giving either pers...
cdierd1944: I am trying to understand why an athlete is considered a role model for anything other than their athletic prowess? These people have too m...
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why do all you losers need heroes?
July 8, 2009 10:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
He was and is my Hero--****
One mistate should not erase a person's life efforts of good work!! It's sad this
happen to both the individuals and pray they are forgiven as we ask if this had happen to one of us.
I feel strongly that this type action was not a regular habit of Steve McNair a country boy taking a wrong step and paying
the highest price possible and that should be punishment enough.
WOULD YOU WANT FORGIVEST?
July 8, 2009 11:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Heroes are always flawed (hence human). It's transcending their flaws for the benefit of others that MAKES them heroes.
July 8, 2009 1:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Yeah, infidelity, drug use, and other "you're not supposed to do this" behavior SHOULD preclude someone from being "admired."
But if we are strictly and objectively looking at someone's on-the-field body of work, then nothing changes that. Great football player. McNair will always be that.
For example, I don't "admire" Michael Jackson, but I still listen to his (pre-1983) music.
July 8, 2009 2:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
'Hero' is perhaps one of the most misused words in the English language. Steve McNair a hero? Get real.
July 8, 2009 3:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
People who drag others from burning buildings are heroes. Marines are heroes. Steve McNair was an athelete who got paid for doing what he was good at. Not a hero. Get real, indeed.
July 8, 2009 3:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Sorry, another oversexed black athlete. Not only cheating on his wife and disrespecting her 4 sons by him, but according to reports, also two-timing Sahal Kazemi with another 20-something piece of candy he was bringing back to his tryst-loft.
Is the fact that he was a successful athlete exculpatory and a reason why we should focus on his "many positives"? Not in my opinion. Think of a middle aged lawyer with a very successful practice betraying his family and fooling around with several young girls until he met a squalid demise. Would there be people exhorting others to credit the lawyer with his drive, skills, admiration of other lawyers and their fans? His wealth?
I think not.
And does anyone doubt this unfortunate young woman would still be alive but for meeting and being seduced by McNair's fame and money?
July 8, 2009 5:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I do not think any person should be anyone's idol whether they are faithful to their spouse or not. This also includes politicians and any militaty personel above captain.
July 8, 2009 6:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
we allow politicians to do it, why would we prevent athletes from the same?
July 8, 2009 6:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, I don't know...What do you think is worse an athlete who commits adultry and let down his/her fans? or...
A politician who leaves his states to go visit his "soulmate" in Argentina and then come back and compares his travesty to that of "King David" in the bible and lets down his constituents who voted him in office?
YOU BE THE JUDGE...I KNOW WHICH ONE WOULD LET ME DOWN AND HERE'S A HINT...I HATE A WASTED VOTE!
July 8, 2009 6:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
July 8, 2009 6:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This is so funny...White people love to talk about Black people and their flaws...
Why they sit on the hypocrisy thone...
It doesn't work anymore we know that there are a lot of jealoues sportwriter whom goal is too show off that Black man flaws!
Slavery is over however, the hate of Blacks lives on in the feeble minds of the fore-fathers of slavery...
See, I don't care what you think of me. Only one I cares about is GOD he put me on this earth and I am going to live my life as fitted.
You guys have all the jobs yet when Blacks tries to succeed your insecurities and feeble-minded jealousy rises! and you think you can keep Blacks down?
My question to you...Why are you so afraid of Black People succeeding?
GOD HAS THE BLACK PEOPLE BACK AS WELL, IF HE HADN'T WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF IT WAS UP TO THOSE KKK'S!
July 8, 2009 6:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
July 8, 2009 6:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Durgs, Infidelity, Cheating, dosent matter what color you are or what "class" you are in. These are personal choices....People know there will be consequneces and they do it anyway....Ignorance on the part of the one who commented "another "black" athelete" please......like white althlets dont use drugs and committ adultry....(no I am NOT black)It is unfortunate when it is a public figure or an athelete because we look up to them and expect them to be what we want them to be...But they are human and humans make poor choices....Just too bad so many kids look up to sports figures and feel let down when thier idols screw up...McNair paid the ultimate price! He lost his life....The consequence can't get any worse than that! Sadly, his family is also suffering because of his behavior. Lastly, when a person is in the public eye all personal issues are subject to public scrutiny...There is no privacy..Most likely if you were at work today and heard a co worker got caught snorting coke at lunch or the spouse left them because they cheated the proabable resposne would be ...Oh thats too bad.... and life would go on it would not be on the 6PM news...Again it is the family who will suffer the consequences more so than the deceased because they have to live with all of this...
July 8, 2009 7:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Jackie Robinson, as the first black man to integrate baseball and who suffered racial abuse with dignity, was a hero. Cal Ripken Jr., who took his job as a player seriously and never denied anyone an autograph, was a role model.
Steve McNair was a great football player. But he was neither a hero nor a role model.
July 8, 2009 7:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Jeez, get a grip. An athlete's job is to perform to the best of his or her abilities in their sport. It's not to be a "role model," whatever that means. Is an athlete who smokes dope or has affairs or whatever less of a role model than one who's a mean, arrogant, close-minded jerk who disrespects everyone around them? Do your job, do your best and if your lifestyle doesn't meet with the approval of 50.1 percent of the public, screw 'em. There's always a hypocritical nitwit like Sarah Palin to "role model" for you...
July 8, 2009 7:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
McNair is a role model to children whose parents allow his image to come into their living room.
Let's name some better role models:
Ryan Leaf the fugitive drug dealer
Rush Limbaugh the prescription pill abuser.
Mark Sanford the absentee adulterer-governor
Sarah Palin the quitter.
Elliot Spitzer the prostitute lover.
Larry Craig the bathroom stall cruiser.
Mark Foley the senate page fondler.
Gary Condit the adulterer whose girlfriend (Chandra Levy) was murdered.
How about staunch segregationist Strom Thurmond who sired a child with his families black maid, or Thomas Jefferson who did the same.
Benjamin Franklin who sired his only son (illegitimate) with a woman of "low standing".
George Bush the alcoholic turned president.
Bill Clinton the (ahem) cigar smoker.
Michael Jackson the alleged child molester.
Jerry Lee Lewis the 13-year old cousin marrying child molester.
Woody Allen who married his adopted step-daughter.
People whether rich or poor have a habit of being self involved. The bottom line is parents need to be role models to their own children.
July 8, 2009 7:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
None but the most ignorant idolize an athlete for anything above athletics. Only sycophants and morons cannot accept that all men are not angels.
The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.
If a man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it.
July 8, 2009 7:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The definition of a role model should be scrutinized more carefully. Just because you can throw the ball 100mph or run the 40 in 4.3 seconds does not make a person a role model. McNair was a great football player but obviously a lousy husband. Let's call it for what it is... McNair is no different than any other man that dares to explore his own selfish needs above that of his family's. No role model here, just another dead tragic athlete before his time.
July 8, 2009 7:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
A role model is a 7x24 proposition. Not everyone is cut out for it. In fact few are cut out for it. If you cannot do it 7x24, don't do it.
July 8, 2009 7:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Sports players aren't heroes. They also shouldn't be thought of as role models for children. Very few children will grow up to live the sort of life professional athletes and performers lead.
If there are degrees of infidelity -- and I'm not sure that degree has a lot of relevance so far as infidelity is concerned -- this is a man who not only had a young lover, nearly half his age, but who bought at least one vehicle with her and co-owned a condo where he met with her. Was he also meeting with yet another woman, at his own home???
And, if she was under-the-influence, and he was in the same vehicle, then sleeping when she shot him, was he also deeply "under the influence?"
I don't care how fast he could run or how well he could play with a ball. This was a man who deliberately and purposefully led two lives and presumably lied to the people who loved him so he could do it. That's a far better measure of his value as a person than his sporting abilities.
Did you read the part where it said "young fans"?
July 8, 2009 7:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The answer to your poll question is NO NO NO NO . No to McNair, NO to Michael Jackson, and NO to the Governor of South Carolina and Bill Clinton types.
They are all cheaters, losersand liars and should NOT be treated as heros.
There's PLENTY of good role models out there without glorifying these terribly flawed individuals.
July 8, 2009 7:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Only the Mulinans, look for "heroes" outside the home.
As for whites, our "hero" comes home from work by 6:00 pm. He goes by the name "Dad"
To me McNair, is just another failed black man, with a mind of a boy, that could not take care of his wife and kids.
Some Hero !
Fathers day, the most confusing day in "Da Hood"
July 8, 2009 7:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
He obviously is a role model, given the enormous number of men who follow the same path. Too bad they won't learn anything from this all too common episode except "don't get caught."
July 8, 2009 7:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Why should athletes or "movie stars" be role models? I admire Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, and the Williams sisters. That being said, when I think of them, I think that they are all a great credit to their parents and certainly not because I admire their excellence in what they do. They should be role models for their children only.
July 8, 2009 8:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
No one should have a role model for a cheater, What does that say about you, Once a cheat always a cheat, Never ever forgive a cheater, Ever. Cheat on one relationship,they will cheat again the next relationship. The cheater will cheat again, again, and again. Don't trust them, EVER
July 8, 2009 8:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Why fight it? Reality in America includes at least serial polygamy. Why not concurrent polygamy, or polyandry, for that matter?
American professional athletes carry a special burden - that of role model. Not to the adults who follow their stats but to the American youngsters who idolize their every move (and those who disagree don't have kids who play sports in their homes). I didn't agree with Charles Barkley when he said "I ain't no role model." On the contrary, athletes are indeed role models, particularly in a celebrity culture. Steve McNair, rest his soul, fell, and his legacy will pay the price. That legacy isn't his set of stats and records on the field but is rather his four young children. They are his legacy. Steve paid the price and has burdened his kids with the knowledge of their father's sin. My only suggestion is that sports GM's look at the character of the man, not just his stats or potential. Bottom line: everything good Steve did on the field has been wiped out in four quick gunshots by a mistress he had no business being with.
July 8, 2009 8:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Yeah. Just so long as we can trust the jealous KKKops, right? Not like what he did wasn't wrong, but he'd raze the roof of those fascistical , sexually repressed Christian southern cops with his libertine flamboyance, "KILL THAT BOY", fer cryin' out loud..And like in 'Nam, shotguns were against the Geneva Convention , but Agent Orange and Napalm were not (though every chopper pilot carried a sawed-off behind his seat, to come out to showed 'em, come out to showed 'em, Gimme dat ole time religion
Gimme dat ole time religion
Don't gimme no affliction
Dat ole time religion is good enough for me
Uh it's good enough for you
Well come out t' show dem
Come out t' show dem (repeat five times)
Gimme dat ole time religion (repeat)
It's good enough for me
Without yer new affliction
Don't need yer new restrictions
Gimme dat ole time religion
It's good enough for me
Moonlight on the mountaain..
July 8, 2009 9:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Charles Barkley said it best: "I am not a role model."
For this forum to devolve into a free-for-all about black fatherhood is offensive and racist. Black, white and men of all colors as well as women are adulterers every day of the week. Most are fortunate enough to avoid being killed because of it. But they leave the same broken families in their wake.
Responding to the comment about "Father's Day being the most confusing day in da' hood and white role models being called dad has clearly not read the newspaper very often and has a very shortsighted and misinformed view when he generically calls white dads heros.
See: Senator Sanford of South Carolina with a mistress in Argentina, Senator Ensign of Nevada cavorting with a staffer and have we forgotten President Bill and Eliot "lock-'em-all-up" Spitzer, ex-NY governor who got caught doing the very thing he used his office as NYC Attorney General to run a very public crusade against the very crime he was guilty of himself.
Athletes are human beings with problems, shortcomings, hubris and pathos like the rest of us. The fact that they are public figures playing a game enjoyed by the masses doesn't change any of that. Is Tom Brady still a role model, though he fathered a child out of wedlock with Bridget Moynihan but went on to marry Gisele Bundchen. By the moral standards assumed by certain other posts to this forum, he should be Bridget's "Baby Daddy", yet he still remains the NFL golden boy.
Bottom-line, Steve McNair was a great NFL quarterback who had shortcomings in his personal life that the people he left behind will have to deal with and work through on their own, privately. The lesson here is that no one is perfect and our mistakes can often have more serious repercussions than we think - Rest In Peace Air McNair...
July 8, 2009 9:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Professional athletes are human like the rest of us. McNair is no different than any other person who is too weak and immature to fight temptation, and I'd go so far as to say that he was an overgrown adolescent who wanted what (and whom) he wanted, when he wanted it. Like many adolescents, he did not think of the consequences of his actions, the least of which being the heartache and pain he would bring upon his wife and family. I suspect he was drawn to her youth and instability (men like the crazy ones); unfortunately he picked the wrong girl to mess with, and it was a fatal error in judgment.
July 8, 2009 9:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The question is two parts:
"Can adulterers be role models..." Does this mean 'can we model ourselves after their adulterous ways'? It's a strange question.
"...or does infidelity preclude athletes from being admired?" How can you admire someone, no matter what his athletic abilities, if he is an a**hole to his wife or children? If his personal life is full of self-gratification?
Gifted athletes are cottled from an early age. They grow up thinking the world owes them a living and that life's rules don't apply to them. Anyone who lives as if the feelings, reputations, and dignity of those who should be closest to him don't matter, and who uses other people to feed his large ego, usually ends up getting exactly what he deserves.
July 8, 2009 10:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
What does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul? I guess Steve McNair may know the answer to that question now. An athlete can be a role model if s/he can keep this question in mind.
This man's accomplishments on the field will forever be overshadowed by his true character. Best not to play games with other people's lives - and leave the games on the field.
July 8, 2009 10:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Prof. Wright, I love it!!! You ain't never lied.
And to the others why is race involved? I wonder what the dead mistress looks likes? White women love big black men oh yeah that's why there's all this jealousy...my bad:(
July 8, 2009 10:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Amen, Factchecker1. Athletes need not be role models, but can't we keep the number of arrestees, absentee fathers, cheaters, and thugs on the field to a more seemly minimum? To say nothing of celebrating their sorry lives less enthusiastically when they're gone?
July 8, 2009 10:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Why not? The republicans still admire Newt. Look at his track record...
July 8, 2009 10:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Unless kids admire professional athletes because of how good they are at being married, I have one question:
July 8, 2009 11:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Steve McNair was a good QB and I am sure will be always be remembered fondly by fans of the Titans as one of their greatest players. How does anyone know what his situation with his wife was and why is it our business? Extramartial affairs are certainly not unique to athletes.
I hope young people learn from this to be carefuly who they associate with in life. This was clearly a mentally ill young woman who committed murder for no good reason. It is very sad someone 20 years old with her life ahead of her felt she had to give up on life and then kill another human being.
July 8, 2009 11:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Ah! How can these idiotic discussions take place? Everyone I know who is 'coupled' is or has been an adulterer. Heroes, athletes, losers, drunks, mathematicians--we all share this quality. Enough already.
July 8, 2009 11:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The court jesters, circus clowns and traveling minstrels help keep us distracted from over 100 trillion dollars in unfunded mandates. Even after they stop jesting, jousting or singing, (whether through overdose, murder, suicide, etc.) we are still encumbered with the sordid details of their lives until the vultures begin to circle over the next disaster. Now we are asked to opine whether or not these agents of distraction should serve as some type of reference point for our kids. Beam me up, Scotty.
July 8, 2009 11:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
We use the term "hero" way too loosely these days and much of its use has been for political reasons.
Being a victim of an unfortunate situation does not make you a hero. Being in a certain profession also does not make you a hero. I have seen many cowardly soldiers and met a few heroic peace demonstrators.
July 8, 2009 11:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Athletes are a mirror of society. Maybe, society has lowered their standards with respect role models. Throwing a punch, a football, or a baseball does not constitute what a role model should be. A far greater measurement is how one conducts themselves on and off the playing field.
July 8, 2009 11:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
You comment that "white women love big black men" and you "wonder what the dead mistress looks like?"
A little advice to help you in this instance... Steve McNair's alleged girlfriend wasn't white. She was Persian.
But isn't that typical - each time people see a white woman with a black man, it's always the white woman's fault. Couldn't be that he chose to be with her. Novel concept...
July 8, 2009 11:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Alot of judgemental thinking going on in these posts. Alot of black/white thinking where things are good/bad.
You will find as some of you crawl out from under your bunker of ignorance, that almost all heroes are flawed in some way.
McNair was a great quarterback. Judging him on his personal life and whether he was a good or bad man on this incident is a terribly ignorant thing to do. We all life in glass houses.
Many famous heroic figures had flaws... George Washington owned several hundred slaves, General Grant was an alcholic, Theodore Roosevelt was an adulterer.
July 8, 2009 11:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
It's as if Mark Sanford and Ensign (people with real power and responsibility) didn't just get caught with there pants down.
Suddenly, Steve McNair is a symbol of black male dysfunction.
Is Mark Sanford as symbol white male dysfunction. Were Clinton's folly's every made to be a representation of white men...
I have been critical and disappointed by McNair's decisions.. but as a married black male I have been bothered by this attempt to make him into a poster child (after he was murdered all be it) of black men behaving badly.
Feel free to criticize his mistakes (I have) but he does not represent me or my values he only represented himself.. prayers to his family.
July 8, 2009 11:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Two words disprove this notion: Steve Largent.
July 9, 2009 12:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Why can't people admire a great athelete without making him a hero? Is it really that hard?
Having said that, I fail to see why the "morality" police care one way or the other what Steve McNair did in his private life, and it wasn't his "immorality" that killed him. Last time I checked, a wife can do the same thing to a man.
July 9, 2009 12:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It is sometimes said that nobody is a saint. But the reality is that saints (in the traditional Roman Catholic understanding) were often flawed. They were admirable for a particular trait but often had large flaws too.
We need to acknowledge the good *and* the bad in everyone. Sure, applaud the good deeds. Don't expect that to mean there isn't anything bad there too.
July 9, 2009 1:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Atheltes are not role models. Kids are not that susceptible. Every generation says they are but the kids of the sixties and seventies did not all do amphetamines becauses professional baseball players did. The kids of today aren't all doing steroids because some pros are using it today.
Second, if anyone, but especially adults, looks to an athlete, entertainer, or anyone outside of their immediate family as a role model then they have an issue they need to work out for themselves (or with the help of a professional therapist).
Firstly, that "role model" is not someone they know therefore can't be modeled. Unfortunately, too many adults, especially sports and movie fans, actually believe they have a "connection" with these entertainers/athletes. You don't. You think you do but you don't. You don't know them, nor they you, any better than the office colleague three doors down only seen once a year at the Christmas Party.
Next, if an adult encourages a child to look up to someone without helping that same child (I'm talking under 10 not a teenager who isn't that easily susceptible) recognize athletes, entertainers, etc are simply people who do a job and don't deserve, merit, or warrant anything more than normal applause than said adult is failing at there job.
Wake up people, athletes and entertainers are one in the same. They are human. Quit demanding heroes.
July 9, 2009 3:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It's interesting that the WP wasn't brave enough to pursue this question last week with Michael Jackson. How in the world is adultery supposed to be worse than child molestation? If McNair could've moonwalked after every touchdown, perhaps he could have avoided the pretentious post-mortem replay analysis.
July 9, 2009 6:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Who cares? They're not paid to be role models...they're paid to win games. This guy's family is reeling and this is all you can come up with? Passive-aggressive demonization of some guy you didn't even know? What a pathetic piece of journalism.
July 9, 2009 6:30 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Hey ONESUGAR....it sounds like you think the cheating was worse than the murder. What does that say about you?
July 9, 2009 6:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
You said "Sorry another oversexed black althlete", how does a few oversexed white politiics sit with you. You need to get a grip, this cheating thing transends race, religion, socio-economic status, whatever.
July 9, 2009 6:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Why is a person who is paid millions of dollars for playing a game a hero??
July 9, 2009 7:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
collectively, some of the stupidest comments i've ever seen.rest in peace,young man,and,condolences to his parents,family,
and,all those who cared about him.
July 9, 2009 7:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
ANOTHER OVERSEXED BLACK ATHLETE?
Leave it to the bigots to make a racial thing of this.
How about another oversexed white governor, or oversexed white congressman, or oversexed White men's room flirt of a politician?
How about that, Chrisford1?
You sound a bit jealous of the money black athletes make.
Too bad, you weren't good enough on the playing field, and obviously weren't good enough in life, to have to "racialize" human frailties.
But if it makes you feel good, then - as Nike says - Just do it.
We can spot losers a mile away.
What happened, a black jock steal your girlfriend?
July 9, 2009 7:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Athletes, like politicians, come from the body of society.
They are no different than the rest of us beyond the particular skill - or charisma they may possess.
There will be adulteres, liars, cheaters, criminals, dopers and all the other things that are found in the general population.
Entertainers, and even policemen also come from society, so you will get all of the ills that exist in society in the ranks of those groups as well.
And, as we dicuss say, a Michael Jackson and young boys, can we include in the conversation the most reverent discipline we can think of, priests?
July 9, 2009 7:32 AM | Report Offensive Comments
So your heros come home at 6:00 pm?
Gary Condit didn't;,
John Edwards didn't,
Adulterous Newt didn't;
Adulterous Henry Hyde didn't;
Adulterous Jack Kenneddy didn't. Oh wait, he didn't have to come home from cheating. He did it in his own house.
Ah, father's day, the most hypocritcal day in white America. Almost as hypocritical as Sunday mornings in lily white Christian Right churhes. The most segregated time of the week.
Sorry dash, the list of white dads who CHEAT is endless, and you don't want to hear it.
You bigotry is endless too.
What a cadre of losers we have on the Wapo Forums. Bigoted losers to say the least.
And for God's sake, pick up a newspaper to READ once in a while, and you would know how ignorant you sound speaking of black infidelity with a certain South Carolina
Governor who had to be "glad" Michael and Steve took the headlines from his adulterous bones.
Read a paper once in a while. Or are you still living back in the sixties, as your name implies?
Your racist mentality is certainly from the sixites.
July 9, 2009 7:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
If you are asking your children to accept athletes as their moral compass, then your children have bigger problems than will be solved by any athlete's behavior or misbehavior. Do your own job, for crying out loud, and raise your own children.
July 9, 2009 7:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I never could figure out why heroes had to be "Presented" to us. Everyday people have everyday people they look up to and admire. Why do we feel we must be 'shown' who to admire? After 65 years on this earth I know who I had warm feelings for growing up and even through adulthood. I never needed any media or public view to inform me.
Why does the media refer to sport jocks as Heroes? Dumb animals is what they are.
July 9, 2009 8:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Where some parts of American society have made the big mistake is in allocating the status of "role model" in terms of education, deportment, behavior, morals and so forth to those who are role models, but in completely different fields.
Role models for all of the above deservedly belong with families, whether two-parent, one parent, grandparent. Sadly, American society puts such a premium on material possessions that virtually all are forced--whether inclined or not--into a rat race in which jobs, or at least MONEY (no matter how acquired) comes first. Everything else is secondary.
Some sports legends--Cal Ripkin comes to mind but there are many others--are suitable as proxy models for family. Sadly, many--who are in the game, whatever it might be: sports, politics, business--JUST for the money, and the material possessions, may not be.
July 9, 2009 8:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
While Steve McNair always displayed himself with class and grace in his public persona, I can't help but think this adulteress affair will diminish his stature.
Look, I am married with 4 children myself so I know how difficult things can be. But the decision to get a swinger pad and hang out with a bunch of girlfriends is unseemly. Want to do that at least have the guts to get a divorce.
Running around with women almost half your age, kind of creepy to me. If I was a Titan's fan, I wouldn't want my 9 year old with his poster on my wall.
July 9, 2009 8:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
McNair should get the attention he deserves, a failed man, husband and father, with a footnote about his admirable football skills.
July 9, 2009 8:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
You know, most large corporations have some sort of 'Code of Ethics' that can result is loss of income and even job loss.
Sports should have the same thing. As most athletes are considered role models, it disgusting what they are allowed to get away with yet are still looked up to and praised by fans.
A slap on the wrist and a public apology of "I've made a bad choice and it won't happen again" should not be enough. Kids are impressionable and it's truly sad that parents don't demand more from these 'role models'.
July 9, 2009 8:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
To answer the question - of course! It helps to be black because the MSM, in its politically-correct stance will rarely, if ever, oppose the person (Marion Barry may be an exception). After all, America has seen the pompom-waving for OJ after his outrageous acquittal for a double murder; the recent idolatry of a pedophile; the election of an anti-American racist. It is not character that makes a 'role model' - - it is celebrity. Sad, isn't it?
July 9, 2009 8:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
OH happy day!! Especially for MRS. McNair. I am so happy for her. She got rid of that dog without any blood on her hands. This news is enough to make women all over the United States climax. He got what he deserved and his wife didn't have to spend any time in a divorce settlement to get all of his millions. I will celebrate her victory and justice for years to come.
July 9, 2009 8:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Parents try to teach their children good behavior. However, children tend to take it with a grain of salt. They need "verification," in the form of another adult who actually lives the life that their parents talk about. The problem is that our society sends kids in the wrong direction looking for that person. Sometimes the best role model is just the guy/woman down the street. It also helps if the person is someone who is no longer with us, in which case we are not apt to be disappointed.
July 9, 2009 8:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
He should not be their hero. What a bad example to elevate before your children--especially in a culture where cheating on your wife is rampant. It is disgusting and wrong. He's caring only about himself--not his family that he is supposed to provide and meet the needs of. I don't ever want my kids looking up to someone like that.
July 9, 2009 8:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Ok, this caught us by surprise, meaning that McNair was probably being discrete in the past and having a middle age crisis in which he was dealing (inappropriately) with his own insecurities. Athletes have long been stalked by groupies and some of them resist the temptation. Unfortunaltey, McNair didn't. Shame on him! As for his wife, you know when your husband is cheating and I in no way believe she is shocked by the cheating McNair. She may be mad as hell...yes, caught by total surprise that he died, yes....knowing he was unfaithful...yes....enjoying his income, yes! Look at the facts...husband gone for 2 days and you don't know where he is...he's out trying to recapture youth! This wasn't his 1st disappearing act. Ok, she gets compensated for the cheating and embarassment in the end, but when you know and turn a blind eye...you are as guilty, Mechelle. With all of that said, Steve has a great player and gave back to his community. His personal life should not cast a cloud on the good he did in all of his communites. He is a great role model for giving back to his communities. Shame on him and shame on her for not putting her foot down and stopping the maddness!
July 9, 2009 8:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
When will our species realize that the Judaic/Christian marriage does not work for everyone? Some, not all, but some simply have a natural desire to change relationships every few years. Not all human beings can fit into a single homogenized system, never have never will.
July 9, 2009 8:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
My father received 3 Purple Hearts from the Korean War as a Marine. THAT'S heroism.
McNair threw a stupid football in a millionaire's game.
July 9, 2009 9:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Bad analogy using the lawyer. You can't get anyone to say something nice about a lawyer even when they do something good. Face it they are the number profession of people we love to hate.
As to your statement implying the girl would be alive today except for her encounter with McNair can you please lend me your crystal ball so I predict the future. It should go without saying saying anyone of that age who would shoot a sleeping McNair 4 times from almost point blank range and then herself can not and should not be classified as stable. It should also go without saying, as the action has already happened, she was suicidal. If your claim is McNair drove this young woman into a suicidal state then back it up with more then innuendo. This was not the act of a rational human being. It was the action of a seriously disturbed human being who was obviously suicidal to begin with. Rational young women don't believe their lives should end because they are in the process of being dumped by an ex-jock.
July 9, 2009 9:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I find it odd that people view McNair as a role model or hero, or that the media paints him as "a loving husband of 12 years" when, clearly, he wasn't. The last time I checked, loving husbands didn't buy Cadillac Escalades for their side-rides.. and why in the world his wife didn't question the insane purchase seems a bit surprising as well. One would assume that this 20 year old waitress was obviously not the first, and not intended to be the last piece of tail that McNair sniffed around.
I understand that everyone has pipes to clean, but when you take a vow to be faithful to someone in a marriage, and you're not, what else are you dishonest about? Kids and teens shouldnt be looking up to a man that can throw a football around pretty well as someone they want to aspire to be if the player can't live all aspects of their life in an honest and hard working way. Not to say they need to be "perfect", but cheating on your wife, buying outrageous gifts for mistress', disappearing for days at a time to be with them... Not one bit of that sounds like a role model to me.
July 9, 2009 9:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It's not just the adultery ...
It's a middle aged father of 4 hitting on a teenage waitress ..... if it were anyone *but* a celebrity athlete, everyone would find it creepy and pathetic. It's no less creepy and pathetic here, just more tragic.
July 9, 2009 9:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I thought that "individuals" get to decide on who's their heros?
As to the question, if an aldulterous US President can be considered a hero, surely an NFL star can.
July 9, 2009 9:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It's clearly not a problem for republican elected officials/governors/US Senators, why would it be for sports figures? It's not like the're gay and asking to get married, I mean that would damage the institution of marriage, right? What a bunch of hypocrites.
July 9, 2009 9:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I think the problem we are having the past 50 years is separating the field of play form the life outside of the field of play. Whether it is in school or the business world, there are role models to follow but they are role models for what we are hoping to achieve. In business or a profession, there are people who have worked in their area of expertise for years and will provide great guidance and advice. However, their private life may not be worth emulating nor should it. WE have to develop our private lives and relationships on what we were taught by our parents and the experiences we have as we develop and grow.
The problem in the past 50 years is that we are choosing to invade an athelete's private world and hold that up as a role model. Admire how they attack their given profession and how they force themselves to excel at such a high level but do not hold an individual's private life as a guideline for one's own. After all they too are human and susceptible to the same flaws that all of us carry with us and how they act upon them is truly their own business and not fodder for idol worship.
July 9, 2009 9:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Heroes? Athletes? How are these men or women heroes? They make millions of dollars (not all granted) for playing a game that they love. That constitutes a hero? Why? I can see a young child looking up to these athletes. Sure. We all did that. But then we grew up. Are musicians heroes? Are painters? Are trash collectors? We are all just people. Some are seen on the tube. That is not justification for the title. What about doctors who save lives? What about firemen and good cops? What about soldiers? What about your dad and mom? What about God? Shouldn't they be considered more heroic?
July 9, 2009 9:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
This is so funny...White people love to talk about Black people and their flaws...
GOD HAS THE BLACK PEOPLE BACK AS WELL, IF HE HADN'T WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF IT WAS UP TO THOSE KKK'S"
Playing the race card in the face of legitimate criticism is racist.
NO ONE should be above criticism because of their race alone.
Success in profession cannot compensate for failure in one's personal life.
This man's memory will forever haunt his little kids who will only remember that their dad was an adulterer who was killed by a woman not their mom. That's truly sad. And race has nothing to do with it. You can't defend defend that as any kind of role model or anything heroic.
July 9, 2009 9:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Twenty-five or thirty years ago I had lunch with a police captain in Alexandria. He and I both grew up respecting and idolizing heros. Heros were something to aspire to and respect and as children with parents and teachers keeping us on that straight and narrow we made it through without drugs and many other illegal things. Our children need heros
July 9, 2009 9:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
dashriprock Author Profile Page :
Umm are you serious?? 'As for whites'?? my very best friend is white, with no dad in sight, which goes to say that phenomenon can occur in both BLACK and WHITE homes. And contrary to popular, ignorant beliefs, not all black people live in 'da hood' or whatever the heck that means. So why don't you check yourself before making obnoxious comments.
The issue here is yet another public figure committing adultery, I believe the NV senator who admitted to adultery, and the SC governor who traveled to Argentina (using tax-payers' money mind you) to meet his 'soulmate' are both WHITES! It really should not have anything to do with race or skin color as much as men who can't seem to keep it in their pants~
July 9, 2009 9:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
How dumb can these discussions get? Why would athletes be held to higher standards than politicians or religous leaders? It is a reality of human nature that people can be extraordinary examples of good behavior is one part of their life and still be in the habit of sexual infidelity. If you can't deal with that reality, find another world to live in.
July 9, 2009 9:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Adultery is often experienced as a terrible personal betrayal. Yet we seem to be teaching our children that adultery is no more than a small and temporary flaw, like a polyester pantsuit or bad haircut.
Even worse, adultery is beginning to look like a male prerogative.
Let's see more publication of women's betrayal of their husbands. More sorrowful tear-stained grim-jawed men's faces in the tabloids, please.
July 9, 2009 9:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Just like other public figures, athletes are now under the eye of 24/7 media catering to never ending public demand for gossip about other people. McNair played up the image stuff during his career; family, father, good guy, etc. But, now because, and only because he was killed, has his personal life been exposed. So, no, you can't be a law breaker and 'hero' in the context of 'hero' here. And, if someone says your a 'hero' for the most part you probably aren't.
Facts are not racist but this has been an overused tactic by blacks: to ridicule the one presenting the facts as racist. Overused and doesn't hold sway any longer. If it were not so pathetic, it would be laughable.
FACT: 85% of families in Detroit (predominantly black) are bereft of a father.
Why do you think that is? Because of the White race? This is simply a lack of education, a lack of morality, a lack of finding meaning in life, and a lack of self confidence. Some of my friends have actually told me that because I am faithful to one woman, that I'm a fool; that I am somehow less of a man. I am appalled at such ridiculous attitudes. Less of a man? I am more of a man for being true, honorable, and concerned with my wife's feelings. I do not need to bang everything with a skirt to prove my manhood. That is a very disturbing look at the inner soul of these men. Oh, most of these guys are black.
I am not afraid to give minorities jobs. In fact, the company I work for, which employs a thousand people, is 85% black.
You have been lied to. And as I've had this same argument with many black people, it always comes down to the same, absurd argument: I'm racist. lol. That is an excuse, nothing more.
When will you take responsibility for your circumstances? When will you turn to the God you say you believe in and ask Him to fix you? I have. I've been broken before God and asked him to fix me. When will you stop lashing out at others whose opinion is perhaps offensive to you? What makes you think you have the right to tell him he doesn't have a right to speak his mind?
Let me ask you this: How many hockey players (predominantly white) do you see in the news? hmm? Name one. I am not naive enough to believe they are all saints. Hardly. But if they are causing trouble, they certainly are not as blatant or unashamed of it. Fact is, most of these guys are family men. I've followed hockey for 30 years. I've read about a handful of guys in the news. I've never heard of a hockey player getting shot. Maybe one. Can't remember.
So, how do we change this trend of immoral behavior? It begins by not making excuses for these guys, but being a stand up guy yourself. Be respectful. Be kind. Be morally responsible. Give of yourself. Remain faithful. Love your wife and kids. Be there for them all the time. Allow others to speak their minds. Don't look for trouble but if it comes, deal with it swiftly. Don't be afraid to lead. Don't follow the crowd. This is standing up. And sometimes, standing up means to turn that other cheek. That's right.
July 9, 2009 10:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
This entire concept of "heroes" is dishonest and ugly. Individuals are individuals and every single one is a complex person with strengths, weaknesses, irrationalities, passions, ideas, etc. When we reduce a person to a "hero," we tell a lie about them. We say that they are nothing but this one attribute we admire and insist that they suppress every other aspect of themselves. Most of us are not eager to be so reduced, and those of us that are usually have something very wrong going on inside.
An extreme case is the late Michael Jackson. He was molded (more like tortured) at a young age into a media-friendly singing/dancing hero. He was placed in front of the public so that they could admire and idolize him. And look what it did to him. That boy died 40+ years ago. And we're as responsible for his death as his parents are because we greedily ate up the "heroic" lie they fed us.
July 9, 2009 10:08 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Steve McNair's sad fate will stand as a wakeup call to philanderers everywhere as concerning the real nature of risk.
Lets get real there are no hero's from presidents to atheletes.This type of adultry has been happening for years.I have yet to see a perfect human being.Please could you show me just one.Human beings make mistakes all the time and unfortunatel it's a part of life.
July 9, 2009 10:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I think you're wrong. I think there are heroes. Not all men commit adultery. But even if they did, sin does not bar one from becoming a hero. No, athletes are not heroes because of their ability. But the athlete that gives of himself to the needy, is. He may be a womanizer, a liar, or something worse. Yet, he did something that others do not.
The man that saves a child from a burning building even though he could have gotten out unscathed. He is a hero. he could also be a murderer. But at that moment, he did the right thing and saved a life.
Does this make sense?
July 9, 2009 10:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
First of all, the only roll models kids should have are their parents. Second kids today are smarter than they are given credit for being. Much smarter than most adults. They know these people are only human and dont judge them the same way adults do. The adults who judge the most are the ones who have their own demons in their closets. No one knows what his personal situation was and no one has the right to judge. His judgement is in the hands of a higher power. Let the man rest in peace
July 9, 2009 10:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Why this question for athletes? "Can adulterers be role models or does infidelity preclude athletes from being admired?"
Many people see adulters in their own homes; in politicians; in priest/ministers; in teachers/principals; in police officers; entertainers; too numerous to name. Why should athletes' human "faults" be any different from others people encounter in their day to day lives?
I would not want my children looking up to any of these individuals. I think it is repulsive that these people still play in professional sports.
The Kobe Bryant rape case made me sick. People defended him and chastised a 19 year old girl for being manipulative and a liar. Are you kidding me! Oh, by the way, note to his wife... Kobe hit on my girlfriend in a bar in Washington DC six months before that incident, inviting her up to his hotel room. Sound familiar? But, she was older and wiser; she didn't go thank god. Kobe got away with rape and cheating on his wife. So what does LA do, throw him a parade.
McNair didn't get away with it and maybe it should stand as a cautionary tale to all these multimillion dollar brats. I don't feel sorry for McNair. He got what he deserved. I feel sorry for his wife and children, though. They are paying for his mistakes.
These guys are an embarrassment.
July 9, 2009 10:16 AM | Report Offensive Comments
1)We need heroes because the reality of mediocrity precludes the majority of us from extraordinary lives. Our culture demands that we be extraordinary and when figures, especially athletes, come along we flock to them - our kids flock to them for the same reason but for a different reason; they believe that they could become superstars too.
2)Athletes are people too and just like regular people they are cheating on their significant others, but probably at a lower rate. Think about how much easier it is for a non-public figure to have affairs than someone who is accountable to an infinite number of media outlets. And just like infidelity among the general population, it is most likely on the rise in professional sports too (not to mention other high profile occupations such as politicians). If you want to take issue with infidelity great, but don't ignore that the problem lies only with the rich and famous. In fact, we should focus on the issue at home first, then it will trickle up. Because of course these "cheating athletes" don't learn their base of behaviors from each other, they learn from their family and friends at an early age - just like everyone else.
July 9, 2009 10:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Athletes, pop stars, celebrities, starlets etc. do not make good role models. Neither should they be maligned. They are what they are: some are vain, arrogant, ambitious, rapacious, greedy for attention/admiration etc. McNair is a lesson for adulterous men and women. Beware who you play with; you might not wake up.
July 9, 2009 10:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Some athletes ARE role models, but not because of their athleticism, because of their good deeds and character and integrity BEYOND their profession. We all know that heroes arent't always public figures. The heroes that have impacted me most are the quiet ones.
First we need to re-define "hero."
There is a young skinny bald-headed woman that went to chemo when I did. She always had her kids (2 and 4 years old)with her. She would carry a heavy load of toys, books, blankets and snacks so they could spend these 4 hours with her 3 times a week. When the social worker asked her if she needed a sitter, she replies that her time was limited and she just wanted to love them every minute she could. This woman had a blue barf bag clipped to her belt, and she never lost her smile.
My chemo is done, my cancer is gone,and I think about her when I even think I'm having a bad day. All of her days were bad, and she made the most of every one of them, giving as much as she could every day. She is on my top ten list of heroes and role models.
July 9, 2009 10:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
"but don't ignore that the problem lies only with the rich and famous" --- I meant "think" not ignore :) By thinking the problem lies only with these athletes and superstars we are ignoring what is happening in our communities.
REAL MEN ARE HEROES, men who take care of their children, who love and respect their WOMAN, not men who comment adultery, rape, or any type of physical or mental abuse against women or children
July 9, 2009 10:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It's pretty clear to me that we have our priorities all screwed up. Sure life can suck, can be boring as hell, and not as rewarding as we all would like. Does that need to lead us to the alter of celebritology? Why americans are so enamored with the rich and shallow is beyond me. To label fringe freaks like Michael Jackson or boorish athletes as "heros" is basically unconscionable.
P.T. Barnum knew a cash cow when he saw one and basically invented the side show. Today pop culture is that side show.
July 9, 2009 10:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
An outstanding football player is not a hero. A hero risks something of his/her own, often their own life, for someone else. Our servicemen/women are heroes. A football player is not. Steve McNair can be admired for his athletic ability - often involving personal drive, training and hard work - and success. In that sense he was a good role model. Unfortunately, his four children will grow up without their father and a young woman's life has ended before it really began (he was the adult in this situation), because of his failings in his personal life. As a father and husband he was an example of a poor role model, like Governor Sanford and too many other public figures.
Only in America. The man had sex outside his marriage, so what. it's nothing for us to judge him on. A whole nation of holier than thou hypocrites. To answer your question, yes Steve McNair was a role model and was someone that one should look up to. He was a man, not an Uncle Sam poster, not some god but a man. This question that I'm responding to is indicative of what is wrong with many of us in this nation;we're niave and juvenile.
The are over 6billion people on the planet earth, there are more women than men people have always enjoyed multiple sexual partners, more often than not and a modern marriage construct will not change that. it will not change a pattern of behavior that has been with us throughout time. 6billion people aren't derived from a ratio of one man and one woman that have X amount of children, factoring in that a spouse dies and then the other spouse remarries WAKE-UP. McNair, unlike Mark Sanford didn't go around judging people or what they did in the bedroom while he, himself did the same exact thing, like a teenage boy that hasn't the benefit of life. People love in different ways and some find satisfaction sexually away from the one they profess to love for various reasons such is life. Who are we to judge. There is no defense needed and certainly there's no condemnation that should be leveled against him or anyone else. His sexually prowess is no business of ours, the only crime here is murder, all because a 20year old femaale with no children or responsibilities panicked and thought she would have to pay her own bills. If anything she's the epitome of what has come to degrade this society. Her behavior was completely Purtitan;Shallow, selfish, thoughtless and dumb. The only time she overcame her lazy behavior, committed to doing something,or working, was when she concluded that the free ride was going to be over. pfffff that's the disgusting part. That an ignorant child that knew nothing, took from us a true HERO, A SOLIDER...A MAN.
July 9, 2009 10:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
McNair was an athlete. It is not what we called him...it is what he would answer too.
July 9, 2009 10:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Well done. Wonderful story.
To all others who would: Jesus came to this earth to be the role model. One person wrote that we need heroes/role models because our lives are so mediocre (paraphrasing). Well, I say, if your life is so average, make it not so. Jesus showed us how to live and how to be a man of faith. He is the ultimate. And yet, most of his time was spent Preaching, teaching, etc. these seemingly average works could be construed as mediocrity to the uninformed. But I can't think of a more exciting and dangerous life. Far above mediocrity.
My wife says: we make our own world. We can either dwell in misery or rise above in joy and fulfillment. That is not mediocre. Plus, you may be effecting lives in a positive way without even knowing it. That is not mediocre.
Other suggestions: Turn that stupid TV off. Get out of that boring house. Go for a long nature walk. Go to a museum. Go to the opera. Write down your list of dreams and goals. Go to an assisted living home and talk to some older people. Pet a tiger. The things you can do to overcome mediocrity is endless. Teach a kid something necessary and good. Buy a good camera and go make some pictures. Write down your memoirs.
No. Life is far above a meager existence if only we will open our eyes to the miracle of it. Shoot. I could sit and watch squirrels and their antics all day. Better than watching overpaid ball players shoot off their mouths about how great they are.
July 9, 2009 11:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
This guy got what he deserved - a cheating husband (or wife) always plays with fire, and he got burned!
July 9, 2009 11:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Hey steve. how's that shotgun offense workin' out for you?
July 9, 2009 11:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
He was no hero whether or not he cheated in an adulterous affair or betrayed his kids has nothing to do with it. He was an accomplished athlete in the public eye who was admired, compensated, and envied for his talents and success and so he tried to give back to the community through charitable acts - that doesn't make him a hero. A hero is someone who risks life and limb to protect or save another without regard for personal well-being or profit. McNair was no hero and his reputation should be tarnished for his childish and selfish behavior in cheating on his wife and leaving his kids fatherless. He probably missed a lot of time with them when he was alive choosing to party and cavort with his various girlfriends. What a sad situation for everyone. It's really too bad he met-up with this wacko-girlfriend! Hopefully others will think twice.
July 9, 2009 11:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Professional althletes should be held to the same standards of morality and faithfulness as the elected representatives who fashion our nation's laws - Presidents, senators, governors ... uh .... never mind.
July 9, 2009 11:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
He didn't abuse dogs.
July 9, 2009 11:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Role model? Who's McNair? This is the first I have heard of this person.
July 9, 2009 11:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Everybody does it. Some get caught, others get away with it. Just get over it. Actually, I never heard of this guy before this happened. He was an oversexed adulterous black athlete making megabucks -- that doesn't make him a hero or a role model.
July 9, 2009 11:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child (Dictionary.com)
No professional sports figure is a hero just because he plays sports.
A hero is someone who risks their life for another. Our troops are heroes.
July 9, 2009 11:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
To Revolutionnow said: Let me ask you this: How many hockey players (predominantly white) do you see in the news? hmm? Name one.
1. Dino Ciccarelli (exposing himself, assault)
2. Mark Bell (hit and run, DUI)
3. Bob Probert (on ice fighting, off ice drug and alcohol related incidences with police)
4. Mike Danton (conspiracy to commit murder)
5. Todd Bertuzzi (ended another player's career by punching him in the head)
6. Joe Corvo (assault - grabbed, punched and kicked a woman in a restaurant)
7. Rob Ramage (DUI that caused a death)
8. Brian Spencer (kidnapping, murder - was shot to death during a drug deal)
9. Robert Colangelo, Timothy Haun, Ryan MacGregor, Bret Norris, Ryan Person and Christopher Reberni (beat up a home owner at a party)
...to name a few.
July 9, 2009 11:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I normally would not go there, but how about oversexed WHITE politicans? Stop using race to justify anything black, white, asian, all races cheat. I'm so tired of closed minded people who only see race. We have cheating governor in New Orleans, and South Carolina and both were white.
People make bad decisions some don't die from them and some do. He was a great athlete and a human. For all of the simple people who want to pretend they have never done anything wrong... There's a book not seen by man and all of your deeds have been recorded. Stop fooling yourself to believe your perfect.
July 9, 2009 11:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
We keep talking about war heros, but is there anything heroic about going to war and killing over 30,0000 innocent civilans based on a made up war?
We need to outlaw the word Hero. Because we are all sinners and have made mistakes purple hearts and all there are no heros.
July 9, 2009 12:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Did Steve Mcnair have the responsibility to be a hero to me, you, or our children? NO
Did he have the responsibility to be a hero to his sons? YES. In that regard, he failed miserably.
July 9, 2009 12:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
His infidelity is what got him killed. His girlfriend thought he was cheating on her with yet a 3rd woman. So young people can learn a lesson from their hero -- cheating can be deadly.
July 9, 2009 12:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
... the election of an anti-American racist...
Were you referring to Strom Thurmond or Jesse Helms?
July 9, 2009 12:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Have you asked Steve McNair kids if he failed them mierably. From what i've seen he was a father who loved and spent time with his four sons. This man had an affair say it twenty times (now get over it). I'm not God and I don't pretend to be all moral and without fault. All of you moral, upstanding folks who have never made a mistake. I have a revelation for you. You have and you will again before you leave this earth. Shut up and find a life......and stop dipping in other peoples.
Compared to some of his pro athlete peers, adultery isn't bad at all. If I had a son who idolized an athlete, I would rather hear about the athlete getting caught cheating rather than engaging in a dog fighting ring, use or sale of drugs, weapons charges, or ramming their car into a police cruiser.
Of course, I wouldn't encourage my son to idolize an athlete in the first place. Yet I suppose any "role model" can come crashing down in disgrace these days.
July 9, 2009 12:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I normally would not go there, but how about oversexed WHITE politicans? Stop using race to justify anything black, white, asian, all races cheat. I'm so tired of closed minded people who only see race. We have cheating governor in New Orleans (mistake I mean Los Vegas), and South Carolina and both were white.
People make bad decisions some don't die from them and some do. He was a great athlete and a human. For all of the simple people who want to pretend they have never done anything wrong... There's a book not seen by man and all of your deeds have been recorded. Stop fooling yourself to believe your perfect.
July 9, 2009 12:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I stand corrected. Perhaps I have conveniently forgotten these horrific (Bell and Danton especially) events. Perhaps I have looked at the world through prejudiced eyes.
Thank you for making me aware of a few things.
July 9, 2009 12:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Strange as it may sound when referring to a 36 year old, I think McNair was probably going through a sort of mid-life crisis. After years of athletics, where he functioned in a highly organized and structured environment, where he was subjected to harsh physical stress and frequent injury, where his efforts were given wide publicity, universal praise and lavish compensation, he was suddenly- done. Eddie George has said he thought McNair was adrift and unable to fill the void in his life after football. There was no playbook to study, no training camp, no game film, no interviews, just the rest of his life. Maybe playing the VIP in front of this young woman made him feel important again. Maybe he would have straightened out his life in time. Too late now.
Hopefully this will provide a cautionary tale for everyone, athletes and fans alike. Football is not war, it is not life. Football is a game. Professional athletes need to train themselves for more than a 6-10 year playing career, they need to train themselves to be ready for the next stage of their lives and the one after that, etc. Fans need to watch and enjoy sports while bearing in mind that the players are not their friends, not their heroes, they are paid entertainers doing their job. Think not? How many players can you think of who have left a championship team for a big payday elsewhere? Right.
July 9, 2009 12:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
No, adulterers cannot be role models, regardless of what he/she has done on the playing field. OJ Simpson did a lot of great things as an athlete, but one would hardly call him a role model. There are plenty of good role models in professional sports, but because they act in a respectful and dignified manner, they don't get the press.
"Flawed Heroes"? Steve McNair is not a hero for playing a sport well. A hero to me is, "A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life." Do any sports figure fit this definition? Jackie Robinson does. McNair does not. Brady doesn't. Manning doesn't. Jeter doesn't. The list of Medal of Honor winners is a list of heroes. Let's not water down the definition of "hero."
July 9, 2009 1:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
One thing that bothers me is the lack of sportscasters talking about the lessons learned from this tragedy. Basically, if Steve McNair had told this girl after she brought his beer and she batted her eyelids, "thanks Hon, but I'm married" he'd be alive today, period.
Life entails risk, some are good risks, some are not. Young ballplayers need to be told while it may be fun, this is a bad risk. If you want to fool around, get divorced or dont get married. If you're married and you love your wife and kids, dont get into this situation. I have heard too many explanations that "he's only human" etc. I hope not every human ballplayer fools around on their wives. If they did, I imagine there would be a lot more wife-induced gunshot wounds, and not all in the head.
Adultery is a wide spread problem in every industry, not just athletics. We should be more concerned about our elected officials and appointed officials since there it is a matter of public trust.
July 9, 2009 1:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
It is how you handle yourself (especially how you treat others) and your fortunes or misfortunes that makes you admirable or not. Some of the most admirable people I know are the ones that overcame their difficult situations or their handicaps.
The Special Olympics is filled with more 'heros' (role models) then all of professional sports in my eyes. They are not generally famous, have endless money and can get all the women or men they want like the NFL players. Their life is full of people fawning over them. It is a challenge sometimes for them to just get out of bed and face the world, and yet they do and they go on to achieve.
Often people confuse admiration for a person whose situation we envy. Who wouldn't want to be physically gifted, and have all the perks, fame and money of a professional athelete. But should we parrot their behavior off the field. I guess that depends on their behavior and your own sense of values.
July 9, 2009 1:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
When are we going to realize that we need to keep things in perspective? Steve McNair is not the first man to cheat on his wife. Nor, unfortunately, will he be the last. That does not excuse his behavior, but he should not be ridiculed any more for it than the guy next door. You should not judge him harder, asking whether he is fit to be a role model, etc. We shouldn't even be having that discussion. The fact of the matter is, were it not for McNair's ability as an athlete, we would not know him or consider him remarkable. This is not to say that McNair didn't have many other fine qualities as a person, but our society makes these athletes idols. Yet, are they more important than the people who teach our children or the doctors who save our lives? I think not. The problem is US, we as a people. Look at this. Somewhere right now a married man is laying down with a woman who is not his wife. And a married woman is with a man who not her husband. Happens every day. And, I am willing to bet some of the people commenting here have done it, too. But just because Steve McNair played football, his frailties are magnified. People are people. We are all flawed. Let's stop idolizing people for such frivolous reasons. He is no better or no worse than any of us.
July 9, 2009 1:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Can adulterers be role models...
Yes, David in the Bible is an example
...or does infidelity preclude athletes from being admired?
Athletes should be admired for the good things they do, not the bad. So while I am unlikely to admire an adulterous athlete, I would still admire the David of the Bible, because of the way he pursued the Heart of God...even though he was a flawed human just like the rest of us.
July 9, 2009 1:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
A fundamental flaw is to take the view of professional athletes as 'heroes' or 'role models' in the first place. These are men and women who, though perhaps incredibly gifted in their respected domain, are simply entertainers and nothing more. Society's placement of them as 'heros' or as a model for success has compromised them just as it has done so for so many fans.
Many of these folks, likely to include McNair, have been carefully shaped, nurtured and stroked from very young ages. As a result, too many have grown into adults with incredibly skewed views and immature perceptions of social relationships, responsibility, and accountability. I hardly think this is the kind of outlook we want as 'role models.'
So, if one enjoys certain sports...then go to a game or follow your team. But let go of the illusions. If one wants a 'role model,' look beyond the adult purveyors of childhood games to those who make a difference - those who can challenge. And stop being surprised when yet another professional athlete fails to live up to artificial standards. It should hardly be a surprise...
July 9, 2009 1:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"Let me ask you this: How many hockey players (predominantly white) do you see in the news? hmm? Name one. I am not naive enough to believe"
Bad analagy. Hockey (the most violent on-field sport) is played where the men can take out all their frustrations right their on the ice.
No other team sport allows the thuggery of beating each other until your arms are tired.
Don't talk about Hockey, the predominately white spoert, as any example of good and fair sportsmanship.
What's the old joke? "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out."
Can you imagine if that much fighting went on in a sport dominated by blacks? The bigots here (and there are plenty of them)would have a field day!
July 9, 2009 1:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
AMERICA PLEASE GET OVER IT. MEDIA PLEASE GET OVER IT.
We need to stop judging people in the public eye. They are human and prone to the same mistakes the average Joe is.
Kids idolize athletes for what they do on the field and not for what they do off the field.
No one can stand up and say they have never done anything wrong and then stand in judgement of someone else. No I do not persoanlly agree with what he did but I don't agree with what his girlfriend did and thats have an afare with a married man but thats what they had to pay for not us
I still believe Steve Mcnair was a great athlete and a good person for his efforts to reach out to young african american athletes to help them adjust to the NFL. One mistake should not erase all the good.
By the way I think Michael Jackson is a musical ICON and deserves all the press for that. I thought in america you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
LET'S STOP PUTTING PRESSURE ON THESE FOLKS TO BE SOMETHING WE ARE NOT.
Parents raise and educate your children and stop relying on the media to do it.
July 9, 2009 1:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This whole unbelievably stupid idea that professional athletes are role models who are supposed to set the standard for moral behavior is entirely the creation of the advertisers whose wares the athletes are paid to peddle, and the agents and owners who otherwise clamor to mooch off the athletes' talent.
Let's face it, 99.9% of the athletes who rise to the elite levels don't get there by being nice, and the higher up the chain you go, the bigger jerks the athletes tend to be. They simply don't care, except in the most superficial and disingenuous sense, whether they develop or exhibit the personal qualities the rest of us admire. It is not part of their jobs, and there is no point or reason to judge them as people based on that.
I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but this is also true of the athletes who are touted as good people who help their communities and are nice guys. It's a myth, and it only persists because there are people who, for some reason, actually care about this. Even Cal Ripken is probably a d*ck, when it comes right down to it. But so what?
The short answer is, no. An adulterous athlete is not a role model. But neither is any other athlete, period.
July 9, 2009 1:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
It's news to me that blacks object to adultery.
July 9, 2009 1:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Why isn't Michael Jackson's picture on this "most unworthy idol" list? Why would "sports celebrities" be any different than "movie celebrities"? Another example of WP's balanced journalism..
July 9, 2009 1:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
No, cheaters and liars aren't heroes (though it's shocking you needed to ask). Not sure why professional sport players are heroes anyway but that's a different topic.
Quick question though, would this question be asked if he had been caught cheating on field? Seems like breaking a sacred vow should be a bigger deal than cheating in a game. What's up with our priorities?
July 9, 2009 2:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
What the players and the leagues need to do is tell parents to go to hell - pro sports is entertainment, not an exercise in inspirational leadership and moral grounding, and if parents want role models for their kids, then they should act like one themselves.
The values that should be taught to children are utterly incompatible with the values a man almost necessarily must have to be a successful professional athlete.
July 9, 2009 2:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Coasttocoat: I completely agree. I wish the sports teams just played their games and didn't pretend that they were all heroes and role models and were just honest that all they cared about was making money. Unfortunately, sports have to be a family affair to make the profits they want by grabbing young audiences and keeping them as lifelong fans. It's just business.
Mostly, people need to get over worshipping these games and players and get off their couches and go play the game themselves. It's beyond silly how much of people's lives (and money) are wasted on this kind of stuff. Same goes for all celebrities. There is more to life despite what advertising tells you.
July 9, 2009 2:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
McNair WANTED to be and considered himself a role model. Therefore, he should have had enough respect for himself, his wife, his family and all of the people who admired him so as not to sacrifice his integrity.
He did this to himself. The lessen here is that cheaters never prosper.
July 9, 2009 2:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
What is so offensive about the question is the fact that it is asked at all. NOOOOO... because a hero is someone who will do what it takes to do something right. McNair wasn't a hero... he was a great player. There is a big difference.
July 9, 2009 2:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Coasttocoast, you're missing the point. McNair saw himself as a role model. Nobody forced that designation on him. This isn't some big conspiracy by parents and the media. He worked in his community to help little kids and encouraged them to follow his lead by the example that HE set.
Hero?! No! And I only say that because no one in the entertainment business should be considered anyone's hero. Heros are everyday people who are making a difference in the world. I am and always have been a sports fanatic, but I would never idolize a player. Yes they might be good on the field or court, but why would I look up to them? They are out there playing a GAME. And being overpaid for it, but I digress. The teachers trying to educate inner city children is a hero. Firefighters run into burning buildings when everyone else is running away. Those are heros. Doctor's who try to cure Africa's many diseases are heros. They are trying to make the world a better place to live and lay their own lives on the line to do so. What we have to remember when we decide to hero worship is the people that we are putting up on a pedestal are human beings capable of making mistakes. Just because they are in the limelight doesn't make them less human. It just puts them under a microscope and a target for mass scrutiny. Not saying that it's right, but cheating on one's spouse is not new business. Should he have made a different decision? Of course he should, but what's done is done. He, and unfortunately his family, has paid the ultimate price. And let us not forget that we don't know 100% what was going on. All we can do is speculate and look at things from the outside in. We need to stop being judge and jury and we need to stop holding these celebrities to these "role-model" standards. If you are a parent then YOU should be your child's role model and hero.
July 9, 2009 2:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Real intimacy is not really possible once one of the partners cheat. Everything they have had up until that point will no longer exist as the cheating spouse becomes redefined. Sex is a union, it is not just physical contact, you become joined to who you have sex with, their essence becomes shared with yours.
So no, you don't want to encourage young people to cheat, it leads to their own unhappiness long term.
Being rich, famous, successful does not give peace of mind, treating people well does.
July 9, 2009 2:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Great quotes from Charles Barkley and John Kruk are coming to mind...
"I am not a role model" - Barkley (Clearly, Chuck. Your DUI arrest last year proved that)
"I ain't no athlete, lady" - Kruk, also the name of his auto-biography.
Pro athletes don't ask to be role models. Society pushes it upon them. These men are often terrible human beings away from the field of play. Everyone has skeletons in their closet and they eventually come out.
Hopefully the McNair tragedy can become a valuable lesson for some other young superstar athletes.
I bet mistresses and girlfriends around the NFL and NBA have been dumped this week!
July 9, 2009 2:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
ravitchn...your cheap, self serving and racist slight has no place on this discussion board. For the record, I have been seeing the media replete with white adulterers ranging from the falsely pious to the rich and overtly hypocritical. And many of those cowardly men have brought their humiliated wives to stand with them as if all were well and the actions were only peripherally objectionable.
Watch in whose house the stone you throw winds up.
July 9, 2009 2:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
In discussions like this, we continue to focus on the athletes, celebrities, etc. rather than on the youth and THEIR proclivities. What is it that they want?
I think it is the freedom that they see these so-called role models as having. They want the chance to be attractive, to have worshipers who will indulge their every wish, to be adulterers and players, to have lots of money, to get their way. In other words, the youth wish they had the pass, the permission to do what we foolish adults think they wouldn't want to do if these so-called role models weren't around doing it.
I think our ideas are simply naive.
July 9, 2009 2:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Football players aren't heros. Football players are entertainers. Fireman, police officers, men and women in the military - those people are heros. And guess what - they make mistakes, too. They make mistakes just like the rest of us non-heros because, like us, they are human. Just like parents - the people who should be the role models for their own kids, but who so often make the mistake of leaving that responsibility to other people, like football players. Turn off the TV and raise your own kids, and maybe you and your kids won't have a reason to be disappointed when these surrogate role models let society down.
McNair has been dead less than a week. He was murdered. You people at the Washington Post should be ashamed of yourselves. What kind of role models are you?
July 9, 2009 2:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
First, let's be clear on what a hero is. By definition, real heros make a difference in someone's of many lives in a time of crisis. Steve McNair used his celebrity to do this. He acquired his celebrity through admirable qualities - toughness, determination and work ethic among others. So admirable - yes.
But even heros are flawed. Some flaws are small, private and never revealed. Others are big and gain national attention. My bet is that many here who have beaten him down for adultery have probably been guilty of it themselves - and if not that, maybe something else.
Holding heros to a standard of perfection is to not understand what a hero is. How the man died - does not equal how the man lived. (Please note that I am a Steeler's fan and would have every reason to NOT like, admire or post something positive about Steve McNair).
Considering the recent examples of Senator John Ensign, Senator David Vitter, Congressman Vito Fossella, and Governor Mark Sanford, the answer is no ... there is not shame in shameful behavior. At least former Governor Eliot Spitzer had the decency to resign from public office when he got caught. Why should we hold former athletes to a higher standard than the esteemed public servants we elect as our representatives?
July 9, 2009 3:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I don't get the concept whereby playing pro sports makes you a hero. This is just a job - nothing else. You're not out there putting your life on the line to save lives. An athlete is akin to an actor, providing entertainment.
July 9, 2009 3:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Anybody who can have a banging wife and two beautiful girlfriends is my hero! I'm just sayin....
July 9, 2009 3:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
To whom it may concern,
Steve McNair fought
all manner of stigma on the field in the
early days of his career and displayed too
much genuine heroism throughout it to be any less than a hero in my book. I don't know the details of his personal life
and I don't think anyone other than his widow and those closest to him do or
should. It is inappropriate to speculate over such things unless there is sufficient
proof to indicate the presence of genuine criminal intent, and in McNair's case the most that can be said is that he had a moment of weakness in his life that regrettably ended in tragedy. People in this country cheat, split up, and re-marry and do all this stuff all the time, and to place Steve McNair or anyone else to an impossibly high moral standard in this regard is grossly hypocritical and unfair.
I say, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and in the meantime allow the McNair's their time of mourning in peace.
July 9, 2009 3:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"My question to you...Why are you so afraid of Black People succeeding?"
My question to you is, what are you talking about? McNair was a man of low moral character, an adulterer and philanderer, who happened to be a black athlete. Are you telling me that low moral character is a successful trait?
Whenever I read comments like this I have to wonder what people live for. Obviously for this young commentator, infidelity is a "perk" of athletic success, and not a moral flaw. And of course the ever present "race issue". This thinking is tiresome, tedious, and wrong.
July 9, 2009 3:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
July 9, 2009 3:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
There is absolutely nothing in a cheater to admire.
July 9, 2009 3:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Earl Butz, sec. of agriculture under Nixon, said it a long time ago: what blacks want is loose shoes, tight p.....y, and a warm place to p...s.
July 9, 2009 3:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I am having a hard time deciding what is more admirable: a person who "sticks it out" under a false sense of duty, never giving either person a chance at real happiness; a person who "settles" and never knows what a close and caring relationship can be; or a person who honorably admits that 40 or 50 years with one person simply is beyond their capability and honorably separates - leaving both a chance to move on. Nothing is sadder than a couple that doesn't touch each other - both physically or emotionally. Many of our leaders had relationships outside of their marriages - some are with those persons now, others just live day-to-day wondering what might have been. And many did excellent jobs for their constituents and their country.
Think about it: Jefferson, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy - John and Bobby, Johnson, Dole, Rockefeller, Guiliani, Gingrich, Clinton, David Patterson, etc., etc., etc.
July 9, 2009 5:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I am trying to understand why an athlete is considered a role model for anything other than their athletic prowess? These people have too much money and too much time on their hands. Women pursue them wherever they go. This is too much temptation. Lets quit looking at them as role models and start thinking of them as examples of what happens to people who are too rich. As an old middle class male without much athletic ability it is hard for me to envision having a gaggle of groupies making themselves available for my pleasure but I am sure it the temptation is great for those who face this situation. I am not the judge but we all will face the judge one day and be called to account for our behavior.
July 9, 2009 9:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments